Re: Had enough of this

[Jon Roberts <man@mentata.com>]

Before I start, I'd just like to say that every list I've ever been on 
goes through threads like this, and many are significantly less 
dignified. I sincerely hope the core developers of OpenLDAP and its 
documentation don't decide that all the bad blood outweighs the merits 
of their efforts, which don't get mentioned so often.

Tony Earnshaw wrote:
> ons, 14.01.2004 kl. 10.49 skrev Ace Suares:
> > - - personal judgement is passed on, in personal mails ('you don't know shit so 
> > don't even try, buddy'). That has been the most lousy thing happening to me 
> > in the internet (or THE Internet) for years. I am very shaken by such utterly 
> > demotivating remarks, made to me in personal and not even having the guts to 
> > put it on the list.
>
> Rotten trick and can be thoroughly demotivating.

This from a man who mails me off-list to say I'm pig-headed... The 
critical difference is, Tonni was (is?) absolutely right. He also would 
probably never suggest a person stop trying. That's one thing a solid 
pig-head is good for, actually.

Ace, from what I understand of your applications and what I've seen of 
your posts, the comment was thoroughly unqualified. I wouldn't even 
waste time worrying about it, let alone writing back to tell him/her 
where to stick it.

> > In my eyes, openldap is immature, and altough it's possible to get by with it 
> > if you get it working one day and then stick to that version (in my case 
> > something 1.x.x-ish), following new releases that have some features you 
> > need, brings more pain than pleasure.

I have my own opinions about OpenLDAP's maturity, but it *is* an open 
source project which means it will be constantly moving forward and the 
people who produce it have no ulterior motive for kissing our asses on 
this list. I wouldn't say love it or leave it so much as advise you make 
your general peace with it and pick your battles from here on.

> > This is my opinion. Now, normally, I wouldn't write this pragraph but on this 
> > list I feel I should: I don't care a damn what you think of my opinion. 
> > Normally, I do care, but this opinion will doubtlessly be dismissed with 
> > something along the lines of: 'how can you have an opinion, becuase you don't 
> > know about ldap.openldap/rfcxyz/C/C+/C++/C+++++++++ or some things that you 
> > don't know  you don't know them.

IMHO and experience, if you want to use OpenLDAP for critical production 
functions or interesting new applications, be prepared for some extra 
reading. On the other hand, I've experienced significantly worse 
documentation in numerous other software projects.

> > Who gives a shit, I want this software to work and I *tried* to make it work a 
> > million times and I asked questions and I tried to answer other peoples 
> > questions but only when I have the feeling I got something to say. And it 
> > aint working out between us, guys. 
>  
> I think you were in a bad mood when you wrote this.

I hope that is the case. It's ironic, but I've always hated working with 
computers, so I know I've been there myself. Writing it out can help, 
but the key is turning the corner and moving on. Breathe with me: out 
with the jive, in with the love.

> > I think it's best that I leave this list, since I feel I am starting to get 
> > vicious. I'll just stay a couple of days more to hear the storm pass over and 
> > then I'll retire.
>
> The list would lose one of its "characters". I for one would miss you.

+1, FWIW

> > I really have to stop now. 
>
> I dunno. I have a tendency to say/write what's in my mind and that's -
> maybe correctly - classed as "unprofessional" by some.

+1 again. That, to me, is one thing working with open source affords ;)

Jon Roberts
www.mentata.com