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Re: mailinglist quarrels


Consider the vhost question recently redirected.  But
instead of LDAP, consider first whether it appropriate
for an admin to ask an Apache configuration question
on a list about filesystems.  I would hope we'd agree
that a filesystem list is not an appropriate forum for
asking questions about how to configure Apache vhost
support.  It should be obvious that the appropriate
place to ask questions about how to configure Apache
vhost support is a list about Apache regardless of
whether Apache  stores that information in files or
in a directory.

Likewise for the recently redirected Outlook question.

I think it odd to categorize either of these issues
as 'interoperability problems'.  Just as it would be
odd to consider problems properly configuring Apache
via files an interoperability problem between Apache
and the filesystem, it is likewise odd to consider
problems properly configuring Apache via LDAP an
interoperability between Apache and a directory
server as an interoperability problem.

While I do think that sometimes folks misanalysis
the problems they face that may lead to them approaching
a less than appropriate list.  We try to point folks
to an appropriate list when that happens.

But, I note, many off-topic posts are not directed here
due to some misanalysis of the problems faced.  Many
of the off-topic posters actually know their problem
know their problem is not specific to OpenLDAP Software,
(some aren't even using OpenLDAP Software).   They just
figure they might be able to (more easily) obtain an
answer to their problem here than elsewhere.

Anyways, we previously tried more liberal post acceptance
practice.  That failed miserably.  The amount of crap on
the list grew quickly to the point were many of the
topic-area experts left, leading to many more on-topic
questions going unanswered.  To fulfill the purpose of
the list, answering on-topic questions, we had to install
stricter post acceptance practices.  That resulted in
improvement in the quantity and quality of answers
(to on-topic posts)

Now, its been suggested that another list would be helpful.
We've already tried that (openldap-general) and it wasn't
terribly helpful.  In fact, it was harmful in a number
of ways.  Folks with questions flocked there, folks with
the answers avoided the list.  And, it can be argued,
many narrowly focused lists dried up as well.

But, if you think having a 'general', 'interoperability', or
'integration' list would be a good thing, I suggest you
simply use the <ldap@umich.edu> list.


At 01:59 AM 9/21/2004, Remco Post wrote:
>Quanah Gibson-Mount wrote:
>>The problem you are having has everything to do with Microsoft & MS Outlook.  You were pointed at the correct resource for your problem 
>Of course, interoperability is a hard issue to debug. Which program is at fault is hard to determine. So a 'interoperability' discussion seems to be at least partly on-topic to this list in the sense that OpenLDAP as a server tool is worthless without clients (all of which are developed outside the OpenLDAP scope). So to be calling these discussions off-topic seems a bit drastic to me.
>Now having said that, two things could be done, one is to set-up a second mailinglist discussing interoperability. The other is to accept that interoperability issues are an integral part of the problems admins encounter when trying to use the OpenLDAP software and open this list to these discussions.
>>several times, and yet you insisted on repeatedly posting to the list, and then heaping "verbal" abuse on the list maintainer.
>I must say, verbal abuse of people who probably spend a lot of their free time on helping us with our problems is not very motivating. I must add that 'use the source' and 'go look for your answer elswhere' type of answers are a bit to common on this list for my liking. But I do get usefull responses from this list as well, and appriciate that. I guess everybody needs to think before hitting the 'send' button and make sure he is not too much deprived of caffeine, this would make this list a lot better place.
>Met vriendelijke groeten,
>Remco Post
>SARA - Reken- en Netwerkdiensten                      http://www.sara.nl
>High Performance Computing  Tel. +31 20 592 3000    Fax. +31 20 668 3167
>"I really didn't foresee the Internet. But then, neither did the
>computer industry. Not that that tells us very much of course - the
>computer industry didn't even foresee that the century was going to
>end." -- Douglas Adams