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From: fumiyas@osstech.co.jp
Subject: [PATCH] SHA-2: Add support salted SHA-2 password hashes
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31 followups: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31

Major security issue: yes  no

Notes:

Notification:


Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 01:32:33 +0000
From: fumiyas@osstech.co.jp
To: openldap-its@OpenLDAP.org
Subject: [PATCH] SHA-2: Add support salted SHA-2 password hashes
Full_Name: SATOH Fumiyasu
Version: master
OS: 
URL: ftp://ftp.openldap.org/incoming/openldap-2.4.31-sha2-salted-hash.patch
Submission from: (NULL) (220.100.28.128)


This patch adds support {SSHA256}, {SSHA384} and {SSHA512} hash schemes
to slapd-sha2 module.

This patch depends on
ftp://ftp.openldap.org/incoming/openldap-2.4.31-sha2-multithread.patch
(http://www.openldap.org/its/index.cgi?findid=7269).

Followup 1

Download message
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 20:01:38 +0200
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?= <michael@stroeder.com>
To: fumiyas@osstech.co.jp
CC: openldap-its@openldap.org
Subject: Re: (ITS#7278) [PATCH] SHA-2: Add support salted SHA-2 password hashes
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fumiyas@osstech.co.jp wrote:
> Full_Name: SATOH Fumiyasu
> Version: master
> OS:=20
> URL: ftp://ftp.openldap.org/incoming/openldap-2.4.31-sha2-salted-hash.p=
atch
> Submission from: (NULL) (220.100.28.128)
>=20
>=20
> This patch adds support {SSHA256}, {SSHA384} and {SSHA512} hash schemes=

> to slapd-sha2 module.
>=20
> This patch depends on
> ftp://ftp.openldap.org/incoming/openldap-2.4.31-sha2-multithread.patch
> (http://www.openldap.org/its/index.cgi?findid=3D7269).

I've not tested the patch yet. But I'd appreciate if SHA-2 support would =
be
available in the main source and not only under contrib/.

Any objections against extending libraries/liblutil/passwd.c?

Ciao, Michael.


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Followup 2

Download message
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 14:49:18 +0900
From: SATOH Fumiyasu <fumiyas@osstech.co.jp>
To: openldap-its@openldap.org
Subject: Re: (ITS#7278) [PATCH] SHA-2: Add support salted SHA-2 password hashes
At Thu, 24 May 2012 01:32:33 GMT,
fumiyas@OSSTech wrote:
> URL: ftp://ftp.openldap.org/incoming/openldap-2.4.31-sha2-salted-hash.patch

In patched slapd-sha2.c, "#define SLAPD_SHA2_DEBUG" must be removed.
Sorry.

> This patch adds support {SSHA256}, {SSHA384} and {SSHA512} hash schemes
> to slapd-sha2 module.
> 
> This patch depends on
> ftp://ftp.openldap.org/incoming/openldap-2.4.31-sha2-multithread.patch
> (http://www.openldap.org/its/index.cgi?findid=7269).

-- 
-- Name: SATOH Fumiyasu (fumiyas @ osstech co jp)
-- Business Home: http://www.OSSTech.co.jp/
-- GitHub Home: https://GitHub.com/fumiyas/



Followup 3

Download message
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 17:12:01 +0900
From: SATOH Fumiyasu <fumiyas@osstech.co.jp>
To: openldap-its@openldap.org
Subject: Re: (ITS#7278) [PATCH] SHA-2: Add support salted SHA-2 password hashes
At Tue, 29 May 2012 05:49:52 GMT,
fumiyas@OSSTech wrote:
> > URL: ftp://ftp.openldap.org/incoming/openldap-2.4.31-sha2-salted-hash.patch
> 
> In patched slapd-sha2.c, "#define SLAPD_SHA2_DEBUG" must be removed.
> Sorry.

FYI.

[PATCH] slappasswd: Read slapd.conf to load dynamic password hash modules
https://gist.github.com/2632560

It is a problem that a slappasswd user must have read privilage
on slapd.conf (or slapd.d) by this patch...

> > This patch adds support {SSHA256}, {SSHA384} and {SSHA512} hash
schemes
> > to slapd-sha2 module.
> > 
> > This patch depends on
> > ftp://ftp.openldap.org/incoming/openldap-2.4.31-sha2-multithread.patch
> > (http://www.openldap.org/its/index.cgi?findid=7269).

-- 
-- Name: SATOH Fumiyasu (fumiyas @ osstech co jp)
-- Business Home: http://www.OSSTech.co.jp/
-- GitHub Home: https://GitHub.com/fumiyas/



Followup 4

Download message
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 09:07:32 -0700
From: Howard Chu <hyc@symas.com>
To: fumiyas@osstech.co.jp
CC: openldap-its@openldap.org
Subject: Re: (ITS#7278) [PATCH] SHA-2: Add support salted SHA-2 password hashes
fumiyas@osstech.co.jp wrote:
> At Tue, 29 May 2012 05:49:52 GMT,
> fumiyas@OSSTech wrote:
>>> URL: ftp://ftp.openldap.org/incoming/openldap-2.4.31-sha2-salted-hash.patch
>>
>> In patched slapd-sha2.c, "#define SLAPD_SHA2_DEBUG" must be removed.
>> Sorry.
>
> FYI.
>
> [PATCH] slappasswd: Read slapd.conf to load dynamic password hash modules
> https://gist.github.com/2632560
>
> It is a problem that a slappasswd user must have read privilage
> on slapd.conf (or slapd.d) by this patch...

slappasswd is an administrative command; if you don't have administrator 
access already you have no business running it.

-- 
   -- Howard Chu
   CTO, Symas Corp.           http://www.symas.com
   Director, Highland Sun     http://highlandsun.com/hyc/
   Chief Architect, OpenLDAP  http://www.openldap.org/project/




Followup 5

Download message
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 09:16:58 -0700
From: Quanah Gibson-Mount <quanah@zimbra.com>
To: hyc@symas.com, openldap-its@openldap.org
Subject: Re: (ITS#7278) [PATCH] SHA-2: Add support salted SHA-2 password
 hashes
--On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 4:08 PM +0000 hyc@symas.com wrote:

>> It is a problem that a slappasswd user must have read privilage
>> on slapd.conf (or slapd.d) by this patch...
>
> slappasswd is an administrative command; if you don't have administrator
> access already you have no business running it.

What in any way makes it administrative?  You simply give it a password to 
convert into whatever scheme for you.  Where is the administrative 
requirement?  Why shouldn't X user with some particular permissions into 
the database, but not the configuration, be able to run it to generate a 
value?

--Quanah

--

Quanah Gibson-Mount
Sr. Member of Technical Staff
Zimbra, Inc
A Division of VMware, Inc.
--------------------
Zimbra ::  the leader in open source messaging and collaboration



Followup 6

Download message
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 18:46:38 +0200
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?= <michael@stroeder.com>
To: quanah@zimbra.com
CC: openldap-its@openldap.org
Subject: Re: (ITS#7278) [PATCH] SHA-2: Add support salted SHA-2 password hashes
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quanah@zimbra.com wrote:
> --On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 4:08 PM +0000 hyc@symas.com wrote:
>=20
>>> It is a problem that a slappasswd user must have read privilage
>>> on slapd.conf (or slapd.d) by this patch...
>>
>> slappasswd is an administrative command; if you don't have administrat=
or
>> access already you have no business running it.
>=20
> What in any way makes it administrative?  You simply give it a password=
 to=20
> convert into whatever scheme for you.  Where is the administrative=20
> requirement?  Why shouldn't X user with some particular permissions int=
o=20
> the database, but not the configuration, be able to run it to generate =
a=20
> value?

I concur with Quanah: I know many operational procedures where slappasswd=
 is
just used to generate pre-hashed userPassword values. This usage is suppo=
rted
by DESCRIPTION in slappasswd(8). I also don't see a requirement for
administrative access to slapd's config at all.

Doesn't this ask for fully integrating SHA-2 password support into
libraries/liblutil/passwd.c?

Ciao, Michael.


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--------------ms010700080803040702000401--



Followup 7

Download message
Subject: Re: (ITS#7278) [PATCH] SHA-2: Add support salted SHA-2 password hashes
From: Kurt Zeilenga <Kurt@OpenLDAP.org>
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 10:25:50 -0700
Cc: openldap-its@OpenLDAP.org
To: quanah@zimbra.com
I'd argue that slappassword shouldn't read the configuration and hence not
support 'contributed' hash mechanisms.

But if you are going to make slappassword read the configuration, then it needs
to be restricted to only users who have read access to the configuration.

I have no real opinion about whether SHA-2 should or shouldn't be in the core
set of hashes... but personally I rather push folks towards SCRAM compatible
hashes than the same poor usages of newer hash algorithms.

-- Kurt



Followup 8

Download message
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 19:38:28 +0200
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?= <michael@stroeder.com>
To: Kurt@OpenLDAP.org
CC: openldap-its@OpenLDAP.org
Subject: Re: (ITS#7278) [PATCH] SHA-2: Add support salted SHA-2 password hashes
Kurt@OpenLDAP.org wrote:
> I'd argue that slappassword shouldn't read the configuration and hence not
> support 'contributed' hash mechanisms.

Which means if SHA-2 stays in a separate overlay contrib/ there won't be
practically usable SHA-2 support in OpenLDAP. I consider it falling behind
other LDAP server implementations.

> But if you are going to make slappassword read the configuration, then it
> needs to be restricted to only users who have read access to the
> configuration.

Yes.

> I have no real opinion about whether SHA-2 should or shouldn't be in the
> core set of hashes... but personally I rather push folks towards SCRAM
> compatible hashes than the same poor usages of newer hash algorithms.

I concur that SCRAM would be the best choice.

But IMO adding SHA-2 support to the core does not hold anybody back from
developing/deploying SCRAM. In reality getting completely rid of simple bind
in favour of SASL bind no matter which SASL mech is nothing done so easily
with all the applications out in the wild.

And last time I checked SCRAM support in cyrus-sasl required clear-text
password in userPassword. So this is outside the OpenLDAP project, isn't it?

Ciao, Michael.



Followup 9

Download message
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 10:39:13 -0700
From: Howard Chu <hyc@symas.com>
To: michael@stroeder.com
CC: openldap-its@openldap.org
Subject: Re: (ITS#7278) [PATCH] SHA-2: Add support salted SHA-2 password hashes
michael@stroeder.com wrote:
> Doesn't this ask for fully integrating SHA-2 password support into
> libraries/liblutil/passwd.c?

Clearly you haven't thought this through.

No, because that doesn't solve the problem of how to use other contrib passwd 
modules.

-- 
   -- Howard Chu
   CTO, Symas Corp.           http://www.symas.com
   Director, Highland Sun     http://highlandsun.com/hyc/
   Chief Architect, OpenLDAP  http://www.openldap.org/project/




Followup 10

Download message
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 10:43:04 -0700
From: Howard Chu <hyc@symas.com>
To: Quanah Gibson-Mount <quanah@zimbra.com>
CC: openldap-its@openldap.org
Subject: Re: (ITS#7278) [PATCH] SHA-2: Add support salted SHA-2 password hashes
Quanah Gibson-Mount wrote:
> --On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 4:08 PM +0000 hyc@symas.com wrote:
>
>>> It is a problem that a slappasswd user must have read privilage
>>> on slapd.conf (or slapd.d) by this patch...
>>
>> slappasswd is an administrative command; if you don't have
administrator
>> access already you have no business running it.
>
> What in any way makes it administrative?  You simply give it a password to
> convert into whatever scheme for you.  Where is the administrative
> requirement?  Why shouldn't X user with some particular permissions into
> the database, but not the configuration, be able to run it to generate a
> value?

slap*(8) are all administrative tools, by definition. You should already know 
that.

Why should X user ever need to run this tool to generate a value? slapd 
generates users' password values automatically. The only time anyone ever 
*needs* this tool is for setting a rootpw in the slapd config. That's the only 
reason this tool exists and it is the only valid use case.

-- 
   -- Howard Chu
   CTO, Symas Corp.           http://www.symas.com
   Director, Highland Sun     http://highlandsun.com/hyc/
   Chief Architect, OpenLDAP  http://www.openldap.org/project/




Followup 11

Download message
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 19:45:19 +0200
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?= <michael@stroeder.com>
To: Howard Chu <hyc@symas.com>
CC: openldap-its@openldap.org
Subject: Re: (ITS#7278) [PATCH] SHA-2: Add support salted SHA-2 password hashes
Howard Chu wrote:
> michael@stroeder.com wrote:
>> Doesn't this ask for fully integrating SHA-2 password support into
>> libraries/liblutil/passwd.c?
> 
> Clearly you haven't thought this through.

Maybe.

But one question:
Why is SHA-1 in the core and SHA-2 isn't?
IMO that's just an arbitrary choice.

> No, because that doesn't solve the problem of how to use other contrib
passwd
> modules.

If you come up with another overall solution to avoid reading the config when
using slappasswd I'm of course fine with that too.

Ciao, Michael.



Followup 12

Download message
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 19:49:15 +0200
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?= <michael@stroeder.com>
To: hyc@symas.com
CC: openldap-its@openldap.org
Subject: Re: (ITS#7278) [PATCH] SHA-2: Add support salted SHA-2 password hashes
hyc@symas.com wrote:
> Why should X user ever need to run this tool to generate a value?

From slappasswd(8):

DESCRIPTION
       Slappasswd is used to generate an userPassword value suitable
       for use with ldapmodify(1), slapd.conf(5) rootpw configuration
       directive or the slapd-config(5) olcRootPW configuration directive.

Do you want to restrict this text regarding ldapmodify(1) only for the cases
that the slappasswd user has also write access to back-config?

Of course your are the OpenLDAP boss. You can change everything to make it
work for you. But it breaks existing operational procedures for other people.

Ciao, Michael.



Followup 13

Download message
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 11:01:49 -0700
From: Quanah Gibson-Mount <quanah@zimbra.com>
To: openldap-its@openldap.org
Subject: Re: (ITS#7278) [PATCH] SHA-2: Add support salted SHA-2 password
 hashes
--On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 5:49 PM +0000 michael@stroeder.com wrote:

> hyc@symas.com wrote:
>> Why should X user ever need to run this tool to generate a value?
>
> From slappasswd(8):
>
> DESCRIPTION
>        Slappasswd is used to generate an userPassword value suitable
>        for use with ldapmodify(1), slapd.conf(5) rootpw configuration
>        directive or the slapd-config(5) olcRootPW configuration directive.
>
> Do you want to restrict this text regarding ldapmodify(1) only for the
> cases that the slappasswd user has also write access to back-config?

The tool has allowed the ability to generate password values for years.  It 
is not uncommon to use it to do just that.  I've often used it to generate 
base-64 encoded SSHA values to push into LDIF I will be writing to the 
server via ldapmodify.  That should not require access to 
cn=config/slapd.conf.

--Quanah

--

Quanah Gibson-Mount
Sr. Member of Technical Staff
Zimbra, Inc
A Division of VMware, Inc.
--------------------
Zimbra ::  the leader in open source messaging and collaboration



Followup 14

Download message
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 11:04:23 -0700
From: Howard Chu <hyc@symas.com>
To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?= <michael@stroeder.com>
CC: openldap-its@openldap.org
Subject: Re: (ITS#7278) [PATCH] SHA-2: Add support salted SHA-2 password hashes
Michael Str.der wrote:
> hyc@symas.com wrote:
>> Why should X user ever need to run this tool to generate a value?
>
>>From slappasswd(8):
>
> DESCRIPTION
>         Slappasswd is used to generate an userPassword value suitable
>         for use with ldapmodify(1), slapd.conf(5) rootpw configuration
>         directive or the slapd-config(5) olcRootPW configuration directive.
>
> Do you want to restrict this text regarding ldapmodify(1) only for the
cases
> that the slappasswd user has also write access to back-config?

We could probably delete that ldapmodify(1) reference. Technically it has 
always been wrong, since there's never been any guarantee that an LDAP user's 
password was ever stored in any user-accessible attribute.

> Of course your are the OpenLDAP boss. You can change everything to make it
> work for you. But it breaks existing operational procedures for other
people.

The text also states
	The practice of storing hashed passwords in userPassword violates
	Standard Track (RFC 4519) schema specifications and may hinder
	interoperability.

Anyone building operational procedures on something that violates the specs 
was asking for trouble. Users should be using ldappasswd, that's what it's for.

-- 
   -- Howard Chu
   CTO, Symas Corp.           http://www.symas.com
   Director, Highland Sun     http://highlandsun.com/hyc/
   Chief Architect, OpenLDAP  http://www.openldap.org/project/




Followup 15

Download message
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 20:11:21 +0200
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?= <michael@stroeder.com>
To: Howard Chu <hyc@symas.com>
CC: openldap-its@openldap.org
Subject: Re: (ITS#7278) [PATCH] SHA-2: Add support salted SHA-2 password hashes
This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format.

--------------ms050402080405010103060108
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Howard Chu wrote:
> The text also states
>     The practice of storing hashed passwords in userPassword violates
>     Standard Track (RFC 4519) schema specifications and may hinder
>     interoperability.

In practice we all live very well with this for years. That's least of a
problem today.

> Anyone building operational procedures on something that violates the s=
pecs
> was asking for trouble. Users should be using ldappasswd, that's what i=
t's for.

???

ldappasswd writes a hashed password to - tataa - attribute 'userPassword'=
=2E
I cannot see how this is different from using ldapadd/ldapmodify.

So what are you really trying to say?

Ciao, Michael.


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Followup 16

Download message
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 11:43:09 -0700
From: Howard Chu <hyc@symas.com>
To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?= <michael@stroeder.com>
CC: openldap-its@openldap.org
Subject: Re: (ITS#7278) [PATCH] SHA-2: Add support salted SHA-2 password hashes
Michael Str.der wrote:
> Howard Chu wrote:
>> The text also states
>>      The practice of storing hashed passwords in userPassword violates
>>      Standard Track (RFC 4519) schema specifications and may hinder
>>      interoperability.
>
> In practice we all live very well with this for years. That's least of a
> problem today.
>
>> Anyone building operational procedures on something that violates the
specs
>> was asking for trouble. Users should be using ldappasswd, that's what
it's for.
>
> ???
>
> ldappasswd writes a hashed password to - tataa - attribute 'userPassword'.
> I cannot see how this is different from using ldapadd/ldapmodify.

Wrong, ldappasswd sends a PasswordModify exop to a server. The server may 
implement that exop in any implementation-specific manner, and there is no 
guarantee that the password a server uses is ever instantiated in any LDAP 
entry. There is no guarantee that setting a userPassword attribute using 
ldapadd/ldapmodify will ever do anything useful for any given LDAP user.

-- 
   -- Howard Chu
   CTO, Symas Corp.           http://www.symas.com
   Director, Highland Sun     http://highlandsun.com/hyc/
   Chief Architect, OpenLDAP  http://www.openldap.org/project/




Followup 17

Download message
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 22:38:17 +0200
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?= <michael@stroeder.com>
To: hyc@symas.com
CC: openldap-its@openldap.org
Subject: Re: (ITS#7278) [PATCH] SHA-2: Add support salted SHA-2 password hashes
hyc@symas.com wrote:
> Michael Str.der wrote:
>> Howard Chu wrote:
>>> The text also states
>>>      The practice of storing hashed passwords in userPassword
violates
>>>      Standard Track (RFC 4519) schema specifications and may hinder
>>>      interoperability.
>>
>> In practice we all live very well with this for years. That's least of
a
>> problem today.
>>
>>> Anyone building operational procedures on something that violates
the specs
>>> was asking for trouble. Users should be using ldappasswd, that's
what it's for.
>>
>> ???
>>
>> ldappasswd writes a hashed password to - tataa - attribute
'userPassword'.
>> I cannot see how this is different from using ldapadd/ldapmodify.
> 
> Wrong, ldappasswd sends a PasswordModify exop to a server. The server may 
> implement that exop in any implementation-specific manner, and there is no 
> guarantee that the password a server uses is ever instantiated in any LDAP 
> entry. There is no guarantee that setting a userPassword attribute using 
> ldapadd/ldapmodify will ever do anything useful for any given LDAP user.

You're arguing based on what a LDAP server could do. I'm arguing based on what
OpenLDAP and other server implementations are doing for years.

None of what you said in this thread is a real argument against adding SHA-2
hash algos to the core. Still you did not answer why SHA-1 is in and SHA-2 is
out.

Well, you're the OpenLDAP god. So you can arbitrarly decide whatever you want.
(But you shouldn't wonder why there's no active OpenLDAP community.)

Ciao, Michael.



Followup 18

Download message
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 13:56:27 -0700
From: Howard Chu <hyc@symas.com>
To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?= <michael@stroeder.com>
CC: openldap-its@openldap.org
Subject: Re: (ITS#7278) [PATCH] SHA-2: Add support salted SHA-2 password hashes
Michael Str.der wrote:
> hyc@symas.com wrote:
>> Michael Str.der wrote:
>>> Howard Chu wrote:
>>>> The text also states
>>>>       The practice of storing hashed passwords in userPassword
violates
>>>>       Standard Track (RFC 4519) schema specifications and may
hinder
>>>>       interoperability.
>>>
>>> In practice we all live very well with this for years. That's least
of a
>>> problem today.
>>>
>>>> Anyone building operational procedures on something that
violates the specs
>>>> was asking for trouble. Users should be using ldappasswd,
that's what it's for.
>>>
>>> ???
>>>
>>> ldappasswd writes a hashed password to - tataa - attribute
'userPassword'.
>>> I cannot see how this is different from using ldapadd/ldapmodify.
>>
>> Wrong, ldappasswd sends a PasswordModify exop to a server. The server
may
>> implement that exop in any implementation-specific manner, and there is
no
>> guarantee that the password a server uses is ever instantiated in any
LDAP
>> entry. There is no guarantee that setting a userPassword attribute
using
>> ldapadd/ldapmodify will ever do anything useful for any given LDAP
user.
>
> You're arguing based on what a LDAP server could do. I'm arguing based on
what
> OpenLDAP and other server implementations are doing for years.

ActiveDirectory is an obvious example invalidating your argument.

> None of what you said in this thread is a real argument against adding
SHA-2
> hash algos to the core. Still you did not answer why SHA-1 is in and SHA-2
is out.

At present there is no need to change anything in the core since SHA-2 support 
can be dynamically loaded. Don't fix what isn't broken.

-- 
   -- Howard Chu
   CTO, Symas Corp.           http://www.symas.com
   Director, Highland Sun     http://highlandsun.com/hyc/
   Chief Architect, OpenLDAP  http://www.openldap.org/project/




Followup 19

Download message
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 14:02:11 -0700
From: Quanah Gibson-Mount <quanah@zimbra.com>
To: michael@stroeder.com, openldap-its@openldap.org
Subject: Re: (ITS#7278) [PATCH] SHA-2: Add support salted SHA-2 password
 hashes
--On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 8:38 PM +0000 michael@stroeder.com wrote:

> Well, you're the OpenLDAP god. So you can arbitrarly decide whatever you
> want. (But you shouldn't wonder why there's no active OpenLDAP community.)

Comments like this weaken any point you are trying to make, serve no 
purpose, and are obnoxious.  Your emails would be better served without 
them.

--Quanah

--

Quanah Gibson-Mount
Sr. Member of Technical Staff
Zimbra, Inc
A Division of VMware, Inc.
--------------------
Zimbra ::  the leader in open source messaging and collaboration



Followup 20

Download message
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 23:15:47 +0200
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?= <michael@stroeder.com>
To: Howard Chu <hyc@symas.com>
CC: openldap-its@openldap.org
Subject: Re: (ITS#7278) [PATCH] SHA-2: Add support salted SHA-2 password hashes
This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format.

--------------ms000604020701070406090000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Howard Chu wrote:
> Michael Str=F6der wrote:
>> hyc@symas.com wrote:
>>> Michael Str=F6der wrote:
>>>> Howard Chu wrote:
>>>>> The text also states
>>>>>       The practice of storing hashed passwords in
userPassword viol=
ates
>>>>>       Standard Track (RFC 4519) schema specifications and
may hinde=
r
>>>>>       interoperability.
>>>>
>>>> In practice we all live very well with this for years. That's
least =
of a
>>>> problem today.
>>>>
>>>>> Anyone building operational procedures on something that
violates t=
he specs
>>>>> was asking for trouble. Users should be using ldappasswd,
that's wh=
at
>>>>> it's for.
>>>>
>>>> ???
>>>>
>>>> ldappasswd writes a hashed password to - tataa - attribute
'userPass=
word'.
>>>> I cannot see how this is different from using
ldapadd/ldapmodify.
>>>
>>> Wrong, ldappasswd sends a PasswordModify exop to a server. The
server=
 may
>>> implement that exop in any implementation-specific manner, and
there =
is no
>>> guarantee that the password a server uses is ever instantiated in
any=
 LDAP
>>> entry. There is no guarantee that setting a userPassword attribute
us=
ing
>>> ldapadd/ldapmodify will ever do anything useful for any given LDAP
us=
er.
>>
>> You're arguing based on what a LDAP server could do. I'm arguing based=
 on what
>> OpenLDAP and other server implementations are doing for years.
>=20
> ActiveDirectory is an obvious example invalidating your argument.

Does MS AD support RFC 3062? AFAIK W2K3 doesn't.
I don't currently have the possibility to check with most recent W2K8R2 t=
hough.

Anyway that's not relevant here either. We're talking about how OpenLDAP
stores and checks the passwords since over a decade.

Violating Standard Track (RFC 4519) schema specifications could be avoide=
d by
implementing RFC 3112. But this also never happened.

> Don't fix what isn't broken.

With this argument you can immediately stop any progress.
Maybe also a valuable statement by the OpenLDAP chief architect.

Ciao, Michael.


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Message of length 5928 truncated


Followup 21

Download message
Subject: Re: (ITS#7278) [PATCH] SHA-2: Add support salted SHA-2 password hashes
From: Kurt Zeilenga <Kurt@OpenLDAP.org>
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 06:45:26 -0700
Cc: openldap-its@OpenLDAP.org
To: michael@stroeder.com
On May 29, 2012, at 1:38 PM, michael@stroeder.com wrote:

> Still you did not answer why SHA-1 is in and SHA-2 is out.

Well, the general rule is simply all new hash schemes should go in contrib
first.  What you ask is for an exception to this general rule for SHA-2.  I
don't see the arguments for the exception being all that strong.  Arguing it
should be "in" because SHA-1 is "in" is a really poor argument.  SHA-1 is "in"
because it was grandfathered in.  SHA-2, like any new hash scheme, is "out"
because of the current practice to put new schemes in contrib.  It's as simple
as that, I think.

I do note that there's many issues bring hashes into core.  One key one is that
core schemes ought to work with minimal 3rd party libraries, and that means
without OpenSSL.   So bringing these schemes also means, if we hold to this,
bring in a SHA2 implementation into core... and that's gets, well, more
involved.  And that's one of reasons we have the core/contrib split.

Anyways, I personally think no exception should be granted, these schemes should
go into contrib like any other new hash scheme would.

I've thought a bit about whether slappasswd should or should not load modules.

I stand against slapppasswd reading slapd configuration by default.  I would not
object to reading slapd configuration when specifically requested by the user
(by a command line argument).

I generally run slappasswd (for setup purposes) as a user which has no access to
slapd configuration.  This not only for convenience, but for security reasons
(limit programs which can read the configuration, as the configuration contains
sensitive information).

While if I needed some scheme only in contrib I might resort to other means to
generate the hash (such as a little perl), I don't object to slappasswd, when
requested by option, reading the configuration, loading the modules, and
generating the hash.  I would only object if slappasswd did this by default, as
that would cause me to have to use other means even for core schemes.

-- Kurt




Followup 22

Download message
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 02:05:33 +0900
From: SATOH Fumiyasu <fumiyas@osstech.co.jp>
To: openldap-its@openldap.org
Subject: Re: (ITS#7278) [PATCH] SHA-2: Add support salted SHA-2 password hashes
Hi,

I wish the following command-line option for slappasswd to
load dynamically loadable password hash modules:

  $ slappasswd -o module-load=slapd-sha2.la -h '{SSHA512}'
  ...

  $ slappasswd -o module-path=/path/to/lib/openldap \
               -o module-load=slapd-sha2.la -h '{SSHA512}'
  ...

At Wed, 30 May 2012 13:45:48 GMT,
Kurt@OpenLDAP.org wrote:
> While if I needed some scheme only in contrib I might resort to other means
to generate the hash (such as a little perl), I don't object to slappasswd, when
requested by option, reading the configuration, loading the modules, and
generating the hash.  I would only object if slappasswd did this by default, as
that would cause me to have to use other means even for core schemes.

I've revised the patch:

  https://gist.github.com/2632560

With this patch:

   $ slappasswd
      Same as the original behavior (do not read any config)

   $ slappasswd -f /path/to/slapd.conf
      Read the specified slapd.conf

   $ slappasswd -f -
      Read the default slapd.conf

-- 
-- Name: SATOH Fumiyasu (fumiyas @ osstech co jp)
-- Business Home: http://www.OSSTech.co.jp/
-- GitHub Home: https://GitHub.com/fumiyas/



Followup 23

Download message
Subject: Re: (ITS#7278) [PATCH] SHA-2: Add support salted SHA-2 password hashes
From: Kurt Zeilenga <Kurt@OpenLDAP.org>
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 10:11:00 -0700
Cc: openldap-its@OpenLDAP.org
To: fumiyas@osstech.co.jp
On May 30, 2012, at 10:06 AM, fumiyas@osstech.co.jp wrote:

> I wish the following command-line option for slappasswd to
> load dynamically loadable password hash modules:
> 
>  $ slappasswd -o module-load=slapd-sha2.la -h '{SSHA512}'
>  ...
> 
>  $ slappasswd -o module-path=/path/to/lib/openldap \
>               -o module-load=slapd-sha2.la -h '{SSHA512}'

This seems more appropriate approach to me than reading slapd.conf files.  Users
who use a particular module frequently can use an alias to reduce the typing
overhead.

-- Kurt



Followup 24

Download message
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 13:32:30 +0900
From: SATOH Fumiyasu <fumiyas@osstech.co.jp>
To: Kurt@OpenLDAP.org
Cc: openldap-its@OpenLDAP.org
Subject: Re: (ITS#7278) [PATCH] SHA-2: Add support salted SHA-2 password hashes
At Wed, 30 May 2012 17:11:23 GMT,
Kurt@OpenLDAP.org wrote:
> > I wish the following command-line option for slappasswd to
> > load dynamically loadable password hash modules:
> > 
> >  $ slappasswd -o module-load=slapd-sha2.la -h '{SSHA512}'
> >  ...
> > 
> >  $ slappasswd -o module-path=/path/to/lib/openldap \
> >               -o module-load=slapd-sha2.la -h '{SSHA512}'
> 
> This seems more appropriate approach to me than reading slapd.conf files. 
Users who use a particular module frequently can use an alias to reduce the
typing overhead.


I've created a patch.

  http://www.openldap.org/its/index.cgi?findid=7284

-- 
-- Name: SATOH Fumiyasu (fumiyas @ osstech co jp)
-- Business Home: http://www.OSSTech.co.jp/
-- GitHub Home: https://GitHub.com/fumiyas/



Followup 25

Download message
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 08:43:30 +0200
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?= <michael@stroeder.com>
To: fumiyas@osstech.co.jp
CC: openldap-its@openldap.org
Subject: Re: (ITS#7278) [PATCH] SHA-2: Add support salted SHA-2 password hashes
This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format.

--------------ms060305000509010900080201
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I'm trying to build this module (make distclean before) from recent RE24 =
git
0cfc487a70f2de40d9827b67949569653ee0e28a but it fails:

$ make
cc -I../../../../include -Wall -g -c slapd-sha2.c
cc -I../../../../include -Wall -g -c sha2.c
cc -I../../../../include -shared -Wall -g slapd-sha2.o sha2.o -o slapd-sh=
a2.so
/usr/lib64/gcc/x86_64-suse-linux/4.5/../../../../x86_64-suse-linux/bin/ld=
:
slapd-sha2.o: relocation R_X86_64_32 against `.text' can not be used when=

making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC
slapd-sha2.o: could not read symbols: Bad value
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
make: *** [slapd-sha2.so] Error 1

Do I have to tweak the Makefile?

Ciao, Michael.


--------------ms060305000509010900080201
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--------------ms060305000509010900080201--



Followup 26

Download message
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 16:51:44 +0900
From: SATOH Fumiyasu <fumiyas@osstech.co.jp>
To: Michael =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?= <michael@stroeder.com>
Cc:  openldap-its@openldap.org
Subject: Re: (ITS#7278) [PATCH] SHA-2: Add support salted SHA-2 password hashes
At Thu, 31 May 2012 08:43:30 +0200,
Michael Str.der wrote:
> I'm trying to build this module (make distclean before) from recent RE24
git
> 0cfc487a70f2de40d9827b67949569653ee0e28a but it fails:
> 
> $ make
> cc -I../../../../include -Wall -g -c slapd-sha2.c
> cc -I../../../../include -Wall -g -c sha2.c
> cc -I../../../../include -shared -Wall -g slapd-sha2.o sha2.o -o
slapd-sha2.so
> /usr/lib64/gcc/x86_64-suse-linux/4.5/../../../../x86_64-suse-linux/bin/ld:
> slapd-sha2.o: relocation R_X86_64_32 against `.text' can not be used when
> making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC

See the above message. :-)

> slapd-sha2.o: could not read symbols: Bad value
> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
> make: *** [slapd-sha2.so] Error 1
> 
> Do I have to tweak the Makefile?

Add -fPIC to $CCFLAGS in Makefile if you are using GCC.

-- 
-- Name: SATOH Fumiyasu (fumiyas @ osstech co jp)
-- Business Home: http://www.OSSTech.co.jp/
-- GitHub Home: https://GitHub.com/fumiyas/



Followup 27

Download message
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 21:30:18 +0200
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?= <michael@stroeder.com>
To: SATOH Fumiyasu <fumiyas@osstech.co.jp>
CC: openldap-its@openldap.org
Subject: Re: (ITS#7278) [PATCH] SHA-2: Add support salted SHA-2 password hashes
This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format.

--------------ms030301040508090109040302
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

SATOH Fumiyasu wrote:
> Michael Str=F6der wrote:
>> Do I have to tweak the Makefile?
>=20
> Add -fPIC to $CCFLAGS in Makefile if you are using GCC.

I hoped that this would not be necessary and the module work include some=
thing
detected via autoconf before.

Anyway it does not work for me. If I set password-hash {SSHA512} such a
userPassword value is added to the entry but the bind does not work.

Also if I generate a salted SHA-2 userPassword with my web2ldap it does n=
ot
work. (I did interop-tests web2ldap<->OpenDJ before with salted SHA-2 has=
hes.)

SHA-2 hashes without salt seem to work.

Ciao, Michael.


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Followup 28

Download message
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 15:54:03 +0900
From: SATOH Fumiyasu <fumiyas@osstech.jp>
To: Michael =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?= <michael@stroeder.com>
Cc:  openldap-its@openldap.org
Subject: Re: (ITS#7278) [PATCH] SHA-2: Add support salted SHA-2 password hashes
At Mon, 11 Jun 2012 21:30:18 +0200,
Michael Str.der wrote:
> >> Do I have to tweak the Makefile?
> > 
> > Add -fPIC to $CCFLAGS in Makefile if you are using GCC.
> 
> I hoped that this would not be necessary and the module work include
something
> detected via autoconf before.

Can you try the following Makefile?

  https://gist.github.com/2915450

> Anyway it does not work for me. If I set password-hash {SSHA512} such a
> userPassword value is added to the entry but the bind does not work.
> 
> Also if I generate a salted SHA-2 userPassword with my web2ldap it does not
> work. (I did interop-tests web2ldap<->OpenDJ before with salted SHA-2
hashes.)
> 
> SHA-2 hashes without salt seem to work.

I've confirmed that slapd-sha2 works on Debian GNU/Linux unstable (x86-64),
Solaris 10 (SPARC) and AIX 6.1 (POWER).

Can you try the following command line with the latest master source
or http://www.openldap.org/its/index.cgi?findid=7284 patch?

  $ slappasswd -o module-load=slapd-sha2 -h '{SSHA512}'

-- 
-- Name: SATOH Fumiyasu (fumiyas @ osstech co jp)
-- Business Home: http://www.OSSTech.co.jp/
-- GitHub Home: https://GitHub.com/fumiyas/



Followup 29

Download message
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 09:30:03 +0200
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?= <michael@stroeder.com>
To: fumiyas@osstech.jp
CC: openldap-its@openldap.org
Subject: Re: (ITS#7278) [PATCH] SHA-2: Add support salted SHA-2 password hashes
This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format.

--------------ms060502000406060901070508
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

fumiyas@osstech.jp wrote:
> At Mon, 11 Jun 2012 21:30:18 +0200,
> Michael Str=F6der wrote:
>>>> Do I have to tweak the Makefile?
>>>
>>> Add -fPIC to $CCFLAGS in Makefile if you are using GCC.
>>
>> I hoped that this would not be necessary and the module work include s=
omething
>> detected via autoconf before.
>=20
> Can you try the following Makefile?
>=20
>   https://gist.github.com/2915450

This works much better.

And now the bind after Password Modify ext. op. also works!
???

Could you please submit a patch with your recent Makefile?

Ciao, Michael.


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Followup 30

Download message
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 09:32:46 +0200
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?= <michael@stroeder.com>
To: fumiyas@osstech.jp
CC: openldap-its@openldap.org
Subject: Re: (ITS#7278) [PATCH] SHA-2: Add support salted SHA-2 password hashes
Michael Str.der wrote:
> fumiyas@osstech.jp wrote:
>> At Mon, 11 Jun 2012 21:30:18 +0200,
>> Michael Str.der wrote:
>>>>> Do I have to tweak the Makefile?
>>>>
>>>> Add -fPIC to $CCFLAGS in Makefile if you are using GCC.
>>>
>>> I hoped that this would not be necessary and the module work
include something
>>> detected via autoconf before.
>>
>> Can you try the following Makefile?
>>
>>   https://gist.github.com/2915450
> 
> This works much better.
> 
> And now the bind after Password Modify ext. op. also works!
> ???

And now client-hashed password generated by web2ldap also works.
Strange it did not before.

Ciao, Michael.



Followup 31

Download message
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:10:11 +0900
From: SATOH Fumiyasu <fumiyas@osstech.jp>
To: Michael =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?= <michael@stroeder.com>
Cc:  openldap-its@openldap.org
Subject: Re: (ITS#7278) [PATCH] SHA-2: Add support salted SHA-2 password hashes
At Wed, 13 Jun 2012 09:30:03 +0200,
Michael Str.der wrote:
> >>> Add -fPIC to $CCFLAGS in Makefile if you are using GCC.
> >>
> >> I hoped that this would not be necessary and the module work
include something
> >> detected via autoconf before.
> > 
> > Can you try the following Makefile?
> > 
> >   https://gist.github.com/2915450

> Could you please submit a patch with your recent Makefile?

I've filed a patch to ITS:

  http://www.openldap.org/its/index.cgi?findid=7309

and another one:

  http://www.openldap.org/its/index.cgi?findid=7308

-- 
-- Name: SATOH Fumiyasu (fumiyas @ osstech co jp)
-- Business Home: http://www.OSSTech.co.jp/
-- GitHub Home: https://GitHub.com/fumiyas/


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